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Talk:Hero
Archived discussions */Archive 1 ---- Lets hope that we can get the attack/defend/stay worked into pets too :P -- 08:24, 16 September 2006 (CDT) How do we know it is three? how do we know? :Pretty sure it said in the PC Gamer article and also there is only 3 spots they can occupy --Lemming64 07:14, 23 September 2006 (CDT) Article layout and content For now, I made the article pretty much a wikified version of the official heroes guide, only restructured. I suggest that we gradually replace ANet's wording with our own as we have the necessary information available, and add images. We all know an image tells more than many words. -- 02:02, 22 September 2006 (CDT) Hero levels Seems that at least for the Preview event Heroes can level to higher than the character's level: --Rainith 21:11, 22 September 2006 (CDT) :I think it's more that Koss joins your party at level 4. Correct me if I'm wrong :) <LordBiro>/<Talk> 10:51, 23 September 2006 (CDT) ::Ok, you're wrong. :P I took that pic right after he leveled up. I believe he joins at whatever level you are (I might be wrong, he and I were both level 2 when he joined me). --Rainith 21:47, 23 September 2006 (CDT) :::I took a few characters through the beginning of the event. Koss always leveled to 3 and 4 before I did. After that, though, he never rose above my level all the way up to 18. --71.50.184.177 19:41, 25 September 2006 (CDT) ::::I've only seen it happen after accepting quest rewards. Maybe the cap works by preventing them from gaineng experience if they already have an equal or greater experience total than you, which, with the doubled experience from quest rewards, would allow heroes to occasionally exceed your level. -- Gordon Ecker 18:22, 6 October 2006 (CDT) :::::I only played the event up to level 11, but Koss seemed to always stay at my level, usually surpassing my level minutes before I would level. Just remember, this was a Beta event which means they could have disabled the part of hero's not being able to surpass your level. --Mwpeck 19:36, 20 October 2006 (CDT) Bundles and Heros As i went through Chahbek Coop the question arose whether it is possible to having a hero pick up a bundle, e.g. the catapult ammunition. As it is clearly stated that ammunition for both catapults is needed, i thought there may be some way to make a hero pick up one, but i failed. Neither ordering him to move to the object he should pick up nor any other method i tried was successful, so i guess it isn't possible - has anyone made other experiences on this? -- Sai Qui 05:25, 23 September 2006 (CDT) Heroes and their Pets You can get a hero to charm a pet (order the other guys away and tell the beastmaster to use Charm Animal. Hit an animal once to agro it so the hero will start to charm). However, when you leave an area, the animal is lost. This makes me sad. — Oreso 06:48, 23 September 2006 (CDT) :Read the game updates, they've listed this as a known bug — Skuld 06:58, 23 September 2006 (CDT) ::Sorry, forgot my emphasis. They can control pets, just not from area to area. — Oreso 07:05, 23 September 2006 (CDT) :::The pet does stay with the Hero from area to area now. My Hero Jin capped a Tiger from Shing Jea.. and still has it on Istan Emotes I know that if you start dancing in an explorable area your hero will join in, I am not sure of the extent of the emotes that it will copy cat but it may be an subject for exploration and intrest. --Lemming64 07:16, 23 September 2006 (CDT) ::Yes this was added in yesterday's update, and applies to all henchies, not just heros(and let me just say I did NOT need to see Thom doing the warrior dance...ever). If you dance, some heroes/henchies will dance, others will play instruments. They also sometimes do random emotes while you're idle, I've seen dance and taunt so far.DKS01 08:03, 23 September 2006 (CDT) Outside Elona Are we able to take our heroes to other campaigns / UW / FoW? I hope we can. -- (talk) 09:13, 23 September 2006 (CDT) http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8817/gailebc3.jpg she also said you can use them in gvg/ha, but i can't find a log saying that :( [[User:Detraya fullvear|'Detraya']] ''talk'' 21:01, 6 October 2006 (CDT) :Here's that other one: http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4387/herosxb8.gif — [[User_talk:Kyrasantae|'kyrasantae']] 21:59, 6 October 2006 (CDT) ::Yay! We are saved! -- (talk) 01:10, 7 October 2006 (CDT) :::Hopefully that also includes Fissure, Underworld and elite missions. -- Gordon Ecker 03:09, 8 October 2006 (CDT) ::::But you can't take henches to the FoW and UW... Kessel 03:11, 8 October 2006 (CDT) :::::But we want to take heroes there, so lets hope. -- (talk) 03:12, 8 October 2006 (CDT) :Any news on taking them to uw or fow? (why we have favor so little time?...) The future of farming How long do you think it will take for someone to come up with a completely autonomous 55 Monk? lol --Macros† (talk) 12:23, 23 September 2006 (CDT) :The hero still steals drops. But yes, it will probably be possible to create a semi good damage dealer hero for a 'soloing' 55hp/Spirit Bonder. -- (talk) 14:14, 23 September 2006 (CDT) ::I can see it now... a partner to cast SS... to cast Spell Breaker... or anything else a dual farm team could do. Only solo (sorta). --Macros† (talk) 16:29, 24 September 2006 (CDT) Past Campaigns It'd be spiffy if the option to recruit the Heroes of Ascalon as Heroes in the Nightfall sense. Same with the Heroes of Cantha (the ones you choose from in the Raisu Palace mission, Danika/Argo/Panaku/Talon/Nika, since Cynn is already a Tyrian Hero). Mayhaps have it so that whichever Faction you join, that's the hero you get, and the other is off-limits (which makes sense, even if you're a double-agent). Possibly Jamei as well, if your Tyrian character had Mhenlo as a Hero he'd be replaced with Jamei upon arrival to Cantha (since he now becomes an NPC). I'd suggest Yijo Tahn, too, but... he wouldn't last very long. It probably won't happen, but hey. It'd be spiffy. --Valentein 17:38, 24 September 2006 (CDT) :They wont be doing major changes to past campaigns, but I'm still hoping that we can take our heroes from Elona to the other campaigns and UW/FoW. -- (talk) 01:25, 25 September 2006 (CDT) :Agreed on your point, that's HUGE to me, so can I take my heroes to chp1,chp2,chp4+?? :--CKaz 15:25, 4 October 2006 (CDT) ::Yeah, which isn't spiffy at all. It's more of an... update, really. They could offer it with some sort of promotional package, to upgrade past campaigns to get certain Nightfall features. I'm not even sure how much work it would require, other than to modify the heroes already made to look like the heroes stated earlier. It would be a decent way to make money, in my opinion. Plus it'd be neat. --70.50.140.38 02:38, 25 September 2006 (CDT) Armor in General, Specifically Headpieces Wow, if you can't change the headpiece on the Heros, that will suck. I mean, what would a Warrior be without an Axe, Sword, or Hammer headpiece? And what if I want to go prot monk instead of heal, or whatever? Don't give me this "put those runes on the body" or whatever, I don't want to pay for runes everytime I change one of the hero's builds... Windtalker 19:28, 25 September 2006 (CDT) :During the weekend all the heros I got (Warrior, Monk, Dervish, Ele) had their primary attribute headpiece. Fine for the monk. The rest I really would have liked to change. --71.50.184.177 19:38, 25 September 2006 (CDT) What does that Item's Attribute +1 on headpieces means? Because it seems to do nothing... -Coran Two unknown heroes I think it can be surmised that one of them is a ranger. I doubt that the only ranger would be one that you may not necessarily get. - 12.218.6.223 20:31, 25 September 2006 (CDT) :I doubt it. I think one is a memser (the actor guy) and the other sounds like a tank. --Karlos 21:19, 25 September 2006 (CDT) ::From the other classes, I'd say that this bodyguard should be either a Ranger or a Ritualist. If Jin is the only Ranger, it's reasonably safe to say that no-one would take Sousuke if they want to fully round out their hero list (i.e. have one of each profession). Ritualist is the only other profession not present, and unless ANet has any more heroes up their sleeves that they haven't revealed yet, at least one profession may get left out. --Valentein 20:35, 27 September 2006 (CDT) :::If yor character is a ranger, why would you recruit a ranger? Likewise, if you have an ele, you'll likely pass on the ele. Overall though, NPC eles stink, so I'd take the ranger for most of my chars (except my ranger). --Karlos 21:02, 27 September 2006 (CDT) ::::It's possible that there's even more heroes. We're already up to thirteen, and I suspect at least one Mesmer and one Ritualist, as well as a Ranger whose recruitment doesn't preclude the recruitment of another non-ranger hero like Jin's recruitment does (although it might be possible to recruit the second acolyte later on in the storyline and there's speculation that Magrid could be a Ranger). Norgu sounds like he could be a Mesmer, but Goren's probably a warrior. -- Gordon Ecker 18:37, 28 September 2006 (CDT) :::::I don't recall where exactly, but in some preview it said more than 12, which is confirmed now, as we already have 13. Personally I expect at least 2 of each core profession, plus 2 of each Nightfall profession, plus at least 1 of each Faction profession. That'd be 2x6 + 2x2 + 2x1 = 18. -- 03:27, 29 September 2006 (CDT) Signet of Capture I didn't get a chance to test this (or check to see if i could get a signet of capture) but I think you might be able to capture elites for other classes with your heroes. I got the idea when, upon getting certain heroes, I learned skills that they came with. (T/ ) 22:33, 25 September 2006 (CDT) :Signets of Capture are not part of the list of unlocked skills, so they can't be used by heroes (or pvp chars for that matter). --Leonim 18:58, 26 September 2006 (CDT) ::The game updates for the event said that it is a known problem that heroeas can't use SoCs, but the function will be there for the final release. -- (talk) 01:41, 27 September 2006 (CDT) :::Ah, thanks for pointing that out. (T/ ) 15:40, 29 September 2006 (CDT) Magrid Magrid is listed here as a Warrior hero, yet in the trailer he/she is clearly shwon firing a bow. Of course, he/she may be a W/R, but for now we can only assume that he/she is a ranger. Planeforger 07:01, 28 September 2006 (CDT) :You can give heroes whatever weapons and secondary professions you want. -- Gordon Ecker 18:37, 28 September 2006 (CDT) ::I realise that, but why would we assume that Magrid is a warrior, when we've only seen him/her use a bow? :::I agree, who made that assumption? --Karlos 01:23, 29 September 2006 (CDT) ::::It may have been me (mostly based on the look of her armor), and yes, the assumption was probably premature. Is the party window visible in the preview video? That would help a lot. That way the profession for the assassin hero was determined. We also need confirmation for Ma®grid's name. See Talk:Magrid the Sly. -- 02:47, 29 September 2006 (CDT) ::Change the profession to unknown then, rather than trying to guess off videos or previews. It's less than a month away for true confirmation ;) --Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 04:32, 29 September 2006 (CDT) :::If the profession is clearly visible in the party window in a preview video I wouldn't call that "guessing", I'd consider that a confirmation. What I'' did was guessing based on ''look. That's a different matter, and I agree I shouldn't have done that. -- 04:38, 29 September 2006 (CDT) ::::I checked the video again, and her profession is not visible. But one thing is visible: Her name is [[Margrid|Ma'r'''grid]] (with two r), without "the Sly". I'll change the article accordingly. -- 04:21, 30 September 2006 (CDT) The Zaishen Acolytes Perhaps it is possible to recruit both Zaishen Acolytes, at some later date? The 2nd trailer clearly shows both acolytes in the same party, with no other pc around. Planeforger 07:01, 28 September 2006 (CDT) :Yeah, I'm hoping that you can recruit the other heroes later in the campaign, or, at the very least, recruit them once you've finished the campaign and reached Elona's version of Divine Path. -- Gordon Ecker 18:37, 28 September 2006 (CDT) Hero Builds Should we make a section for hero builds? Given how customizable their skillsets are, there will probably be a lot of combos that the AI can use well, and a lot it can't. Particularly for those of us who enjoy Guild Wars as an RPG rather than an RTS, a listing of tested "fire and forget" hero builds that the AI can be given would be quite useful. --Shattered Self 18:48, 28 September 2006 (CDT) :I'm not too sure we should have that. Maintaining and testing character builds is already a pain to those involved. If you start posting up hero builds, we're gonna have people creating alot of new pages for hero team builds. --Ab.Er.Rant (msg Aberrant80) 19:54, 28 September 2006 (CDT) ::I would be thoroughly against that. Then again, I was against the current builds system, so anyways... I can see where if someone was able to, say, 2 man farm the UW with their hero how that such a build would be something people wanna know, but frankly, 90% of the PvE farming builds we have are silly. Take for example the fabled "Troll Farming" build which is ludicrous. I mean, farming trolls is not exactly the most profitable thing you can do. The reason there are so many troll farmers is because it's easy, not because it is optimal. Anyways. I am against such an idea, but never underestimate the abilities of the human intellect. There may come a time where 2/3 man hero builds become the thing. I can already see two very powerful scenarios where heroes will help farmers a lot... A bonder monk, and a spirit spamming ranger. Both can do their thing, and then be told to go stand in a corner away from the action. --Karlos 22:56, 28 September 2006 (CDT) :::This is where build wiki could be usefull. Just move all builds there and start adding hero builds too. The rules could also be made a lot better if there is nothing else but the builds in the wiki. -- (talk) 17:09, 29 September 2006 (CDT) ::::It would be pretty useful to have one page per character and then list all the alternate builds. Not a lot of the common builds used in PvE or PvP would really work on henchmen because their AI doesn't use the skills properly. For example, the very first thing I did with Koss was make him a shock/axe warrior. All he does is spam shock leaving no energy for anything else. I hope people can restrain themselves from posting crappy builds though. (T/ ) 22:34, 29 September 2006 (CDT) :::::Yeah, but you do know that you can control your hero's skillbar, you don't need to rely on the AI. --Rainith 22:51, 29 September 2006 (CDT) ::::::I'd imagine that would get difficult when controlling 2-3 heros. I don't have much time to do other stuff as is when I'm trying to time my interrupts. --Ryard 00:02, 30 September 2006 (CDT) :::::::My 2nd build was a succor battle rager. He either didnt use battle rage or when I told him to use it, he would do nothing but continually use it and have no adrenaline for attacks. You can't tell them what ''not to do is the main problem. And you cannot instruct them on proper use of stances, etc. You basically have to work a build around the way their AI works. Like I did. (T/ ) 01:28, 30 September 2006 (CDT) :heroes will rock in the running business. :) An extra meat wall which you control is always nice. -- (talk) 00:34, 30 September 2006 (CDT) Zhed Shadowhoof Bare with me but he doesn't appear to be an Ele primary. Look at how fast he uses Elemental Attunement in the video. That screams fast cast mesmer to me. And those definately aren't energy storage weapon/offhands. (T/ ) 02:05, 6 October 2006 (CDT) :Someone in my alliance hooked me up with some magazine scans that show the professions of 12 heroes (two of them not previously listed here) and their professions. Zhed is a mesmer. You can see them here and here2. (T/ ) 10:40, 6 October 2006 (CDT) ::Why was Zhed reverted? The Guild Wars website says he's an Elementalist here - Lord Ehzed 22:26, 13 October 2006 (CDT) (being good and not double-reverting....) :::Because no one said anything about it till now, leaving Chuiu's comment as the only one on the issue. --Fyren 22:36, 13 October 2006 (CDT) More listings and loving what Razah might bring to the table http://gw.gamona.de/artikel/artikel.php?id=184 and then babel-fished it, yummy. Seems to add a couple to the mix, Olias necro, Zenmai assassin, which means yes we have to have a Ritualist in tow (maybe Master of Whispers, maybe someone else). But hold the phone for Razah and the rough translation - :Razah :Informal hero :"I live to serve over." :Origin: The nebulas :Older: Not applicably :Class: '''Variable' '' :The Protomaterie, of which the nebulas consist, strives for creation and brings thereby often daemonisches life out in nightmareful shapes. However all creatures from the nebulas are not daemonisch. If the nebulas come into contact with a suitable human template, they can copy for example the shape of this humans and a feelingable nature with a humanoiden exterior as well as an almost human spirit to create. Razah is such a creature. The nature manifested itself directly in shape of attained full growth humans. It had the knowledge and the abilities of humans, has however no human understanding. As consequence of it Razah places strange questions over human feelings, thinks about human motives and tries to copy human characteristics. Razah is a contradiction in itself: in certain way more humanly than humans, in other way more in an inhuman way. It needs an identity, a personality and a purpose. Hopefully Razah finds its purpose in co-operation with a hero. Otherwise the creature could monstroesen to likewise and degenerate to inhuman Scheusal, as there is its daemonischen brothers. --CKaz 13:20, 16 October 2006 (CDT) :My guess would be that you choose his profession when you recruit him, not that he can change his profession any time after you recruit him. Also note that the picture shows a necro called "Attoron" and the text names a guy called Olias. --Karlos 22:15, 16 October 2006 (CDT) ::So Olias was in the White Mantle, then left, and Zenmai was in the Am Fah, then left. Huh. --Valentein 22:32, 16 October 2006 (CDT) :::I suspect that Razah may use your own character as a template, copying your own profession, although I'm hoping you'll be able to change Raziah's primary profession as easily as you can change your own secondary profession. I think it'd be cool if he / she / it looked sort of like the Doppelganger. Does anyone have a link to the original article on the official site? -- Gordon Ecker 23:15, 16 October 2006 (CDT) BTW here's the babelfish translations of Olias and Zenmai's descriptions. :Olias :Possessed Nekromant :"Grenth lives! You against it must die!" :Origin: Tyria (lion stone) :Older: 32 :Class: Nekromant :In former times Olias received its movement orders from the white coat, but today he goes its to own way. A meeting with the temple of the ages convinced Olias that it a special mission had granted: It serves now as Grenths personal "hand the justice" and implements, which it regards as the will of its God. It lives after a simple principle. From those, which there-separate and return to the life, Grenth expects that they live their lives well. If they do not do that, Olias ensures for the fact that they are carried back into the cold embrace of the master of death. Puzzling events in Elona force it now to become active in Grenths name. All unrest in the country is for Olias a sign for the fact that the Gods are threatened and even the dead ones in their eternal sleep become jerky. He swore Grenth the fact that he the cause of the strange illness find and would repair. And if Grenth gets thereby new servants, the better! Death and killing please Olias. It talks gladly also about other topics, but strange to say the discussions return somehow again and again to death and killing. :Zenmai :Abtruennige Assassinin :"I know this smell. That is the smell of death." :Origin: Cantha :Older: 23 :Class: Assassinin :Zenmai learned the methods of the quiet attempted assassinations as a member the to Fah gang in Cantha. It broke with the criminal gang, when this organization accepted the canthanische plague as a "gift of the Gods". :Now it is Mo Zing - a around-pulling sword, an abandoned Assassinin, which sells its services to highest bidder the in each case. It has debt feelings because of the illness, which overcame their former brothers and sisters, but change is the only constant in its life. With increasing darkness she feels that a long-known power again back is and works behind the window blinds. Who or which is responsible for the plague always: It wants to place the causer, who devastates its country with this epidemic has. -- Gordon Ecker 01:34, 17 October 2006 (CDT) :Lol, this is hilarious. :) Sounds like a translation by Gollumfish to me. :) I love the "white coat." :P Nice info though. --Karlos 05:00, 17 October 2006 (CDT) ::Actually, I'm surprised by the quality of translation. If that's the original Babelfish text, not polished by a human, then Babelfish has improved a lot! Their translations used to be total gibberish. Now it's understandable. -- 06:35, 17 October 2006 (CDT) :::It's a lot better with European languages, probably because they're a lot closer to English. The Babelfish translations of these pages on the Taiwaneses site mention Pakistan, Switzerland, Italy, Japan and the Iraqi Luo river, and refer to Melonni as "the proud cedar young gentleman". -- Gordon Ecker 20:11, 17 October 2006 (CDT) Gamespot and IGN articles According to Gamespot there is one hero that can only be recruited if you have both Prophecies and Nightfall (probably Olias) and one hero that can only be recruited if you have both Factions and Nightfall (probably Zenmai). I hope there's more than one Factions hero, I'll be really disappointed if there's no Ritualist hero. According to Gamespot there are 12 heroes, while IGN says there are 14, according to both articles you can recruit the heroes you missed due to mutually exclusive recruitment quests once you've finished the campaign. The Gamespot article says that there are hero-specific skills, which are taught be hero trainers and bought with hero skill points that are apparently earned by advancing in sunsper rank. It isn't clear if this means that there are skills that can only be used by heroes, or if it only means that you can teach heroes skills you haven't unlocked. -- Gordon Ecker 04:40, 19 October 2006 (CDT) :Alex Weekes clarified how hero skill trainers work in this thread. ::"OK, so here's what I can let you know about the article. Firstly, it is correct in that you do not have to pay gold to teach a new skill to a hero. Secondly, the information about unique hero-specific skills is wrong, there are no unique skills for heroes. The Hero Skill Trainers give you the opportunity to teach new skills directly to your heroes, meaning you aren't stuck with a skill-shortage on heroes who are a profession that you are not using (and have not used before)." : -- Gordon Ecker 02:22, 21 October 2006 (CDT) Only 12 Hero's Total In a recent review on gamespot, they mentioned that there are 12 hero's. And 2 special hero's, each of these special hero's will be obtained in either prophecies or factions, making he total of 14 hero's.(ONLY if you have both Prophecies AND Factions) It has not been said which hero's are the 12, or which are the 2 specials. But some of the ones listed here are wrong. source. The article states that once you beat the game, you can obtain all 12 hero's.(14 if you have factions and prophecies) --Mwpeck 19:14, 20 October 2006 (CDT) :While you may be correct, two things: :#Articles like that have been wrong in the past (one PC Gamer article from a few months back said that Elite skills are always at the bottom of the capture window). :#I'm reasonably certain that I saw more heroes than that when I was at the launch party earlier this week. :Now I may be wrong as I didn't actually play during the party but I thought I saw about 20 or so listed in the little drop down menu where you choose them. --Rainith 21:39, 20 October 2006 (CDT) ::It's possible that 10 of those slots were Razah, but I'm hoping for a Ritualist hero and more than one Mesmer, Dervish and Paragon hero. -- Gordon Ecker 22:03, 20 October 2006 (CDT) :ok, the Article on IGN also states 14 hero's(they could be stating 14 as if you have all the games). Though if you think about it there really should be more than 14. I would say 2 of each core profession, than maybe 2 dervish and paragon(and an assassin or rit can be obtained if you have factions). Either way, we will all see who the hero's are and their professions in less than a week. --Mwpeck 22:29, 20 October 2006 (CDT) Trailer #3 According to the trailer, I made a few changes: 1. Several Heroes naming conventions have been confirmed in the trailer, such as Zhed Shadowhoof. I've changed this. (see 1:48 of the trailer) 2. It's been pretty much confirmed that Kerak and Attoron aren't heroes. --Zinger314 21:56, 25 October 2006 (CDT) Maintained Enchantments My heroes won't keep maintained enchantments up outside of battle. They don't cast them on their own while not fighting, and if you force them to cast with the control panel, they immediately drop them. Even when they use them during battle, they let them drop immediately when the battle ends. Can other confirm this is happening? Is this a "feature" or a bug? BigAstro 03:15, 27 October 2006 (CDT) :I had a way to do it: Shift-click the enchantment. This makes it so the hero doesn't change who it's on, remove it or anything like that. Then have the hero cast it on the wanted targets. They drop it outside of battle because they're wanting to manage their energy. Craw 09:10, 28 October 2006 (CDT) ::Yes, Craw is correct, i turned my tahlkoro into a bonder doing this, he can maintain a max of 10 enchants, but i use 8 (7 bonds, and balth spirit on himself). --Terrifi Cani 21:45, 28 October 2006 (CDT) Razah is not a hero People have been through the game and did not see him. He can't be unlocked through Balth Faction. So I removed him as a Hero.